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Fast-Charging Electric Buses Come To SoCal

Gas 2.0 -- I know we have a lot of readers from Southern California. Sure the weather is great, and the people are generally friendly, but for me it is just too crowded and congested to ever call home. Plus, for such a progressive place, there is a surprising lack of good public transportation. Then again, California has been making big strides towards electric and hybrid vehicles, whether en masse or one municipality at a time. Give credit where credit is due, I always say.

Much credit is due the Foothill Transit authority, which serves Pomona and San Gabriel. They have, at great expense, purchased two all-electric buses and charging stations from Proterra, an electric vehicle startup.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; electric vehicles make the most sense for cities. Most of these vehicle

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Submitted Sep 02, 2010 By: CiVX

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honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:15,259 Points:1,141,225 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 9:49:24 PM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse DonofAK: nah, nothing came about... at least Ted Stevens might in retrospect say it would have been better IF the "hairbrained idea" of a plane hadn't been invented. As for me, I enjoy the Wright brothers' crazy contraption. Eventually ppl will buy into the EVs and the H2-Vs, but for now, I gues the bashers will remain.. like I say, computers, cell phones... if there had been an internet, they would have been verbally put on the manure pile just the same way.
DonKofAK All-Star Author Anchorage Posts:869 Points:591,185 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 8:50:46 PM Ignore DonKofAK Report Abuse The US Postal Service, FedEx and UPS are reportedly investigating electric drive train conversions to their delivery vehicles because the stop-and-go nature of their operations wastes a lot of gas from idling engines while electric motors consume energy ONLY when they're accelerating or maintaining a cruise speed. The first units will be costly. Lessons learned will reduce costs and economies of scale will further reduce capital and operating costs. The Wright brothers started with a one-man airplane -- newspaper editors thought the report that they actually flew was a hoax. Then the brothers began work on a two-seater. Did anything ever come of the Wright brothers hairbrained idea? [Edited by: DonKofAK at 9/3/2010 8:52:18 PM EST]
remay Champion Author Houston Posts:4,696 Points:1,654,720 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 8:40:07 AM Ignore remay Report Abuse "...this all cost a pretty penny. $5.6 million for the two buses and charging stations. Considering that a standard diesel bus costs between $250,000 and $300,000, it will take a long, long time to make up that price deficit." And what EXTRA charges can individuals expect to be hit with when they own an EV?
Gas_Buzzer Champion Author South Carolina Posts:11,848 Points:2,164,830 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 7:51:38 AM Ignore Gas_Buzzer Report Abuse The home of "nuts and fruits". Whatever. So I guess they expect the rest of the country to pay for these.
honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:15,259 Points:1,141,225 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 6:12:32 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse JettaKnight: I think most people don't read these articles, just skim what others have said and then blast out their (or their spoonfed) opinions.
JettaKnight Champion Author Toronto Posts:1,355 Points:1,712,435 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 1:19:06 AM Ignore JettaKnight Report Abuse TBONE3 Pennsylvania "A good start. I hope everyone realizes that to go green also could bankrupt the country. 5.5 million for two buses and charging stations equals 18 or so diesel buses and that is green also, isn't it?" Why does everyone seem to think that the $5.5 million is just for the 2 buses? The bulk of it is going to the 2 charging stations, their installation, their hook-up to a dedicated grid and the power transmission lines & towers installed to get to the garages. The number of diesel buses that could be purchased for comparison above fails to take into account the initial installation of the refuelling stations necessary to operate the diesels, including the underground fuel tanks, environmental assessments, standards to prevent fuel leaks into nearby ground water systems, pumping stations, exhaust ventilation systems and electrical power installations to run the whole thing. After all things are considered, I doubt that ANY money would be left-over (of that $5.5 million) once the infrastructure is built & paid-for to buy ANY diesel buses "as a first-time purchase".
Prodaddy Champion Author Houston Posts:6,058 Points:1,431,020 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:52:57 AM Ignore Prodaddy Report Abuse Lets see how this works
camel1 Champion Author Minnesota Posts:6,045 Points:1,815,440 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:43:05 AM Ignore camel1 Report Abuse EV's make sense in cities. These green Buses are too expensive at the total package price.
Bus561 Champion Author Lexington Posts:14,071 Points:2,752,030 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:40:36 AM Ignore Bus561 Report Abuse They say fast charging, how fast charging?
MahopacJack Champion Author New York Posts:5,900 Points:1,181,550 Joined:Feb 2008	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:36:38 AM Ignore MahopacJack Report Abuse This may be the perfect niche for electric vehicles. Government or businesses that do not need to go long distances and can schedule their downtime for recharging.
TBONE3 Champion Author Pennsylvania Posts:6,388 Points:1,510,745 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:36:08 AM Ignore TBONE3 Report Abuse A good start. I hope everyone realizes that to go green also could bankrupt the country. 5.5 million for two buses and charging stations equals 18 or so diesel buses and that is green also, isn't it?
Insuremn Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:2,591 Points:566,315 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:35:02 AM Ignore Insuremn Report Abuse And today Ford warns of brown outs in neighborhoods where there are more than two all electric cars charging at the same time on the same transformer. Where is all this power coming from? Are they going to build a couple of nuclear power plants to charge all the vehicles? I think a hybrid with a hydrogen fuel cell, a kinetic energy recovery system and include the super capacitors VW has developed is the answer.
EVBuddy Champion Author Nevada Posts:14,333 Points:2,567,565 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:26:21 AM Ignore EVBuddy Report Abuse For sure or is this just a test?
LoneGuy Champion Author Lansing Posts:6,143 Points:1,855,705 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:25:31 AM Ignore LoneGuy Report Abuse I like the way they stated "at great expense". That is the crux of alternatives at this time. Isn't California the state due to go into forclosure for defaulting on bond payments?
mapelle621 Rookie Author Montreal Posts:71 Points:24,450 Joined:Nov 2009	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:23:47 AM Ignore mapelle621 Report Abuse lets count how many ways this can fail / will cost so much more for so little
tedjm1 Champion Author New York Posts:3,540 Points:389,685 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:18:36 AM Ignore tedjm1 Report Abuse They probably get a break because it is a 'greening event'. Good for them. Good for NYC, but the charging stations will take up lots of street area.
Rageagainsttm Champion Author Tampa Posts:6,009 Points:1,447,195 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:16:41 AM Ignore Rageagainsttm Report Abuse SoCal is going green.
kingofcode Champion Author Florida Posts:1,554 Points:437,585 Joined:Jun 2010	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:14:24 AM Ignore kingofcode Report Abuse HOW DID THEY PAY FOR IT WHEN THEY ARE BROKE...
DustyHorse Champion Author Virginia Posts:4,016 Points:978,340 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:09:24 AM Ignore DustyHorse Report Abuse And they wonder why they are broke.
TIGERPAW46 Champion Author Florida Posts:5,158 Points:965,885 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:08:47 AM Ignore TIGERPAW46 Report Abuse Same article, but I will still be surprised if, in the long haul, they don't lose money once you exclude any grants, tax credits etc. Also I read another article yesterday where another study showed electric vehicles, when you considered total environmental impact were more polluting than newer diesel vehicles. That is including manufacture fuel usage & recycle etc. [Edited by: TIGERPAW46 at 9/3/2010 12:11:33 AM EST]
Blue_Cruzer Champion Author Lexington Posts:5,152 Points:1,202,725 Joined:Mar 2007	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:07:02 AM Ignore Blue_Cruzer Report Abuse They should have used the money more wisely,IMO.
dirt girl Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:33,165 Points:2,620,155 Joined:Oct 2004	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:06:05 AM Ignore dirt girl Report Abuse Buses here run on diesel, natural gas and electric.
JohnofGB Champion Author Flint Posts:3,075 Points:631,320 Joined:Feb 2010	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:04:10 AM Ignore JohnofGB Report Abuse Same story as yesterday AM
jimgraham Champion Author Akron Posts:7,960 Points:1,513,070 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:02:51 AM Ignore jimgraham Report Abuse About time.
Jo120 Champion Author Arizona Posts:4,242 Points:1,475,330 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:02:42 AM Ignore Jo120 Report Abuse It's a good start
Quick68 Champion Author Columbus Posts:4,832 Points:757,825 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:02:09 AM Ignore Quick68 Report Abuse California is broke who may I ask is paying for this?
traindude Champion Author Virginia Beach Posts:5,614 Points:1,245,330 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:01:26 AM Ignore traindude Report Abuse it's a start
bababooey2 Champion Author Hartford Posts:3,985 Points:835,090 Joined:Sep 2009	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:00:55 AM Ignore bababooey2 Report Abuse This will cost taxpayers billions..........
regasaz Champion Author Phoenix Posts:3,656 Points:841,685 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:58:33 PM Ignore regasaz Report Abuse Watch the power transformers start blowing up when they plug in a fleet of busses to the power grid.
BKool Champion Author Michigan Posts:4,526 Points:1,753,300 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:56:05 PM Ignore BKool Report Abuse so
us4usa Champion Author Missouri Posts:3,820 Points:680,225 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:42:31 PM Ignore us4usa Report Abuse They could buy all the bus riders a new volt for $5.6 M
danreino Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:6,275 Points:1,143,170 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:40:45 PM Ignore danreino Report Abuse Uhh hey Beavis.....You might want to get some natural gas...huhuhuhuhu
Chris46 Champion Author Dayton Posts:17,130 Points:1,672,420 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:39:34 PM Ignore Chris46 Report Abuse I know the Federal government will bail them out, but isn't California about bankrupt? Should this be considered a good investment for them?
LilRedWagonIN Champion Author Indiana Posts:5,411 Points:1,103,775 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:36:06 PM Ignore LilRedWagonIN Report Abuse The point is: "They have, at great expense, purchased two all-electric buses" at a time when the state is bankrupt because of all these liberals spending so liberally.
Jeff1944 Champion Author South Dakota Posts:3,088 Points:677,810 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:33:54 PM Ignore Jeff1944 Report Abuse So the cost of all this is more expensive than gas, diesel and natural gas; right?
DEG Champion Author Las Vegas Posts:15,397 Points:3,054,380 Joined:Jul 2003	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:31:49 PM Ignore DEG Report Abuse The Liberal/Socialistic tendency of the politicians in CA is scary and they have destroyed a good state.
OGW Champion Author London Posts:3,342 Points:1,112,955 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:27:11 PM Ignore OGW Report Abuse We used to have an electric railroad train that took people about 25 miles from the city to the beach every hour and it was replaced by diesel trains in the late 60's and then the rail line just closed up and people drove. The old electric train was real neat to ride on but it was not battery operated but was like the old trolley buses. It delivered coal and oil from the port during the heating season. All that was old was not bad. What goes around, comes around.
mstearno Champion Author Dayton Posts:5,867 Points:1,286,185 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:24:20 PM Ignore mstearno Report Abuse Whatever it takes do it
mikaye Champion Author Cleveland Posts:1,801 Points:456,570 Joined:Jun 2010	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:24:02 PM Ignore mikaye Report Abuse why were cheap electric buses discarded? they were everywhere once, why switch to poluting gas guzzling smelly buses?
JettaKnight Champion Author Toronto Posts:1,355 Points:1,712,435 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:18:06 PM Ignore JettaKnight Report Abuse realtorguzzler Florida "There were trolleys and trams that ran on electricity that were pulic transportation in the old days. San Francisco and New Orleans still have part of this system. Houston has implemented some kind of bus system that looks like a trolley system. The only problem in other cities is to lay out the rails is maybe prohibitive." Throughout the rest of the country and the world, trams & trolleys may also known as streetcars. If the costs of installing rails along permanent routes SEEMS prohibitive to city counsellors in the short term and the lower maintenance costs are ignored, then they can still choose busses that use overhead wires instead of batteries, just like the streetcars, but without having to install rails. These generally are more costly to maintain than streetcars: tires, suspension, steering, etc., but the reduced wheel noise MAY give them an advantage. For complete flexibility they'd need to be battery operated. However, I'm sure that some enterprising company could come up with an option for a few "spare" vehicles to be wire/battery hybrids: using wires when available (AND to recharge the batteries), but using ONLY battery power when detours due to construction, accidents, etc. would cause their normal routes to be altered. Wire-only for unaffected routes, wire/battery hybrid for detoured routes. A simple, flexible solution.
Lukus Champion Author Halifax Posts:6,021 Points:1,216,385 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:16:05 PM Ignore Lukus Report Abuse They need to add some SOLAR to the charging systems and to the buses.
ashishpa All-Star Author St. Louis Posts:951 Points:217,540 Joined:Feb 2010	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:14:40 PM Ignore ashishpa Report Abuse Better to have CNG buses first which are much economical and green.
abcdMA Champion Author Worcester Posts:5,619 Points:1,114,250 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:12:38 PM Ignore abcdMA Report Abuse hopefully it works
RENEGADEGAS Champion Author Missouri Posts:12,049 Points:1,126,105 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:07:36 PM Ignore RENEGADEGAS Report Abuse Mowerman08...you said it!! Its called a lack of common sense.
ferd41 Sophomore Author Buffalo Posts:150 Points:242,625 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:06:51 PM Ignore ferd41 Report Abuse Aren't the buses in Boston rubber tired? No rails? Just over head wires? There were electric trolleys in Buffalo NY up till the late 40's.
katmandue Champion Author Detroit Posts:5,744 Points:1,676,040 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:02:18 PM Ignore katmandue Report Abuse hopefully they can change them over to solar energy.
Mowerman08 Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:2,478 Points:780,815 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:00:18 PM Ignore Mowerman08 Report Abuse "...$5.6 million for the two buses and charging stations. " GREEN or NOT, know wonder California is going bankrupt!
paulg72 Champion Author Boston Posts:1,558 Points:543,375 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 10:58:45 PM Ignore paulg72 Report Abuse Well I know the mbta in boston has about 25 buses. That run from harvard sq (cambridge ma) to n. Cambridge they run on overhead lines they have had the as long as I remember I'm 37
us4usa Champion Author Missouri Posts:3,820 Points:680,225 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 10:53:45 PM Ignore us4usa Report Abuse Why not CNG buses?????
realtorguzzler Champion Author Florida Posts:1,488 Points:259,210 Joined:Jun 2010	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 10:53:04 PM Ignore realtorguzzler Report Abuse There were trolleys and trams that ran on electricity that were pulic transportation in the old days. San Francisco and New Orleans still have part of this system. Houston has implemented some kind of bus system that looks like a trolley system. The only problem in other cities is to lay out the rails is maybe prohibitive.